Interviewing Cardinal Stephen Chow and Bishop Matthias Der
2026 marks the 10th Anniversary since the Anglican Communion and the Roman Catholic Church met in the historic joint pilgrimage to Rome and Canterbury, proclaim-ing the common appeal of ‘Walking Together: Common Service to the World and Witness to the Gospel’. It is also the 60th Anniversary since Archbishop Michael Ramsey opened dialogue with Pope Paul VI, establishing links between the two churches, and founding the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC) and the Anglican Centre in Rome.
Marking such a meaningful occasion, the International Anglican-Roman Catholic Commission for Unity and Mission (IARCCUM) invited the church press of both the Anglicans and Catholics in Hong Kong to hold a joint interview. During the Holy Week of 2026, Cardinal Stephen Chow and Bishop Matthias Der sat down in conversation about the ecumenical road thus far, and the path ahead.
Chow: Cardinal Stephen Chow; Der: Bishop Matthias Der
This whole thing about ecumenism, unity, and having a common mission between the Anglicans and Catholics — how is this related to the faith of our com-mon Christian?
Der It’s deeply meaningful that we could have this conversation during Holy Week. At the Last Supper, our Lord Jesus prayed for his disciples that they may be one. If we look at our society now, we’ll see conflicts and disagreements aplenty. But in the church, our goal is unity.
Chow To me, unity is different from uniformity. Uniformity is not our goal. We should acknowledge and respect that there are differences that rose from the church’s history, and these differences gave us uniqueness. Such uniqueness brings diversity, which is a blessing. We ought to learn to appreciate our differences, but most importantly, we should be able to see that we share the same calling and the same mission.
Der Indeed. We are all children of God, and we are the same family in God. As the Cardinal said, what we seek is not uniformity in our faith — we are not trying to merge as church-es. Rather, it is the shared witness of the Lord’s spirit and love that we seek.
Let’s look at history: back in 1966, the erstwhile Archbishop of Canterbury, Michael Ramsey, visited Rome and met with Pope Paul VI. This was the first time in 400 years that the two churches formally met since they split, and for 30 years since, the two church continued in theological dialogue.
In 2001, the IARCCUM was formed, in order to promote our shared witness in different local contexts. I believe this is wonderful progress.
Chow And since this historic meeting, the dialogue never stopped!
Der So really, when we talk about ecumenical unity, it’s really about how we can simultaneously preserve our own cherished traditions and learn from each other. It’s about mutual support in our church life. That is the wonderful grace that was given to us by God.
Chow The church is a church of and in the world — you can’t take it out of it. When facing the challenges and sorrows of the world, we have the resources to work together, and face them hand in hand.
What would you say is a memorable milestone in the road of ecumenism, whether internationally or within Hong Kong? Could you share with us a thing or two that best represents ecumenical efforts here in Hong Kong?
Der In 2016, the International Anglican-Roman Catholic Commission for Unity and Mission（國際聖公宗‧天主教合一與使命委員會, IARCCUM）called for a meeting of bishops. Heeding the call were 19 Catholic and Anglican bishops, coming from dif-ferent countries and regions. They formed Catholic-Anglican pairs, and travelled first to Canterbury, then to Rome. Following this meeting, the Hong Kong Catholic Anglican Liaison Group（香港天主教－聖公會合一聯絡小組）was formed, and in 2021 IARCCUM（聖公宗‧天主教合一與使命委員會）was formed in Hong Kong.
A second bishop’s conference was called in 2024, and we were both fortunate enough to be able to participate. More than 50 attended, hailing from 27 countries and regions. Cardinal Stephen had the historic privilege of being the first Catholic cardinal to preach in Canterbury Cathedral in the past 400 years. From this we see that we can build on this spirit of mutual understanding and respect, no matter where we come from.
Chow We also organised many activities locally. The joint Passover Dinner has become a staple. This year’s was held at the Anglican Holy Trinity Cathedral, and I was the celebrant. Back in 2024 it was at the Catholic Caritas Centre, and Archbishop Andrew Chan was the celebrant. I think this is a great way of showing our mutual acceptance and presence.
There was also the joint clergy retreat, which already took place twice. We shared our calling with each other, and the challenges we face daily in our ministry. It was truly meaningful.
Der You mentioned the retreats — I remember that, towards the end, each of us went up to receive blessings from the other bishop: Anglican priests from the Catholic bishop, Catholic priests from the Anglican bishop. It was really a moving sight. Other than that, there were also several youth events, one of which was an ‘Eco-Retreat’. We had teenagers and young adults coming from different parishes across the two churches, and yet once they were gathered, there was no need for any ice-breaking — the conversations just flowed. It was as if the Holy Spirit has worked its way in building bridges of love amongst them, teaching them to appreciate each other.
What sort of role can the youth play in ecumenical dialogue? Perhaps they could be entrusted with carrying the torch?
Chow A church without young members is a church without a future. All ecumenical efforts must be done with their assistance and participation to be successful. Our first goal is to let them see the goodness and need of ecumenism, so that they would strive for it. We must also afford them more opportunities to meet, and encourage them to step outside their comfort zone.
On the Internet it is very easy to come across some very inappropriate and worrying comments, where people would the Anglicans or the Catholics heretical. Many teenagers and young adults would read these and believe them to be true. I heard with my own ears a young man calling the church of Christ such horrible names. I was very hurt hearing that.
Der I think we shouldn’t limit ourselves to just IARCCUM events between the Anglicans and Catholics. Other churches, too — different organisations can invite different denom-inations to join. The Taizé community comes immediately to mind. They’re organising an Asia Youth Meeting in late May, to be held in Hong Kong. So you have youths from different church traditions all gathered together to pray, sing praises, and meditate. It’s a great way and platform for all of us to get to know each other, and learn to walk the ecumenical path by praying together.
Chow I agree, we can lead the way in building such platforms, allowing the youth from different denominations to join together in prayer and in spirit.
You recently swapped pulpits, preaching at each other’s services. If the goal is to encourage further cooperation between parishes and cathedrals across denomi-nations, what suggestions do you have?
Chow We visited and preached at each other’s cathedrals as a symbolic example. I think visits between parishes is something that we should bear in mind — every time I visit a Catholic parish, I always ask if there is an Anglican parish or organisation nearby, and I encourage them to get to know them and organise mutual visits.
Der I know there are some parishes who started mutual visits and cooperation recently. In Central there’s St John’s Cathedral, St Paul’s Church, and the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception; in Causeway Bay there’s St Mary’s Church and St Margaret’s Church. In March, our Diocese of Western Kowloon held its vestry member retreat at the Catholic St Teresa’s Church, and invited their parish priest the Revd Ngai Tak Man Moses as their guest speaker. These are all great opportunities to share with and learn from one another.
The swapping of pulpits is important, as it is a visible sign of friendship and respect within our worship. We hope more parishes can organise similar swaps, and make the spirit of ecumenism more commonly seen.
There were other ecumenical events organised in recent years between the two denominations. What sort of real change or revelation would you say they have brought to our clergy and church members?
Der Last year we went to Lantau Island for our Joint Stations of the Cross. The weather was perfect, and along the way we had many a good conversation between Anglicans and Catholics. It was really a moment of visible unity there.
And what can truly bring us together within our Lord? The answer is prayer — when we pray, that is when our Lord Jesus is with us. Then it turns into something beyond mere humans. It’s the connection within our Lord’s love, a truly meaningful connection.
Chow Indeed! We only need to take a step forward, and the wider society will see that it is possible to have amicable fellowship between religions and between churches. It’s far too easy to see division in our current society.
Der Back in 2024, when I had the chance to meet the bishops from other regions, I felt that we at Hong Kong are actually doing quite a good job at ecumenism. The leaders of our two denominations are both supportive of the cause. We must be thankful to our Lord, and to you as well, Cardinal.
Chow I’m deeply grateful for Archbishop Andrew’s invitation to the Joint Passover Dinner. Sharing a meal together means a lot in Chinese culture, and when you see members of the two churches sitting together sharing conversation like old friends, you know something good is happening.
Between the Anglicans and the Catholics, what are the hurdles yet to be overcome on the road of ecumenism? In the decade to come, what would you wish to see in the church in Hong Kong when it comes to ecumenism?
Chow I’d say it all comes down to us, and how divided we can get. The question we have to ask ourselves is: how close are we now, and should we get closer? There are still plenty historic misunderstandings that plague us, old disagreements and rivalry that cannot be solved in a single day. But we must bear hope and have faith, and allow our next generation to know each other more. Let them work with each other, pray with each other, and live with each other. Perhaps we can even found a school together. All of these are things we should spend time on.
Der Many Christians still hold a plethora of misunderstandings of denominations other than their own. We must continue to work on them, and overcome them. We could provide correct information to our brothers and sisters in Christ, and hope that they can build bridges where the weeds of division once grew. I hope we can all come to see that, despite our differences, our faith came from the same source, and the teachings we follow are overwhelmingly the same.
Through education, I hope to slowly eliminate these misunderstandings, and replace them with mutual trust and fellowship. As we’ve discussed earlier, the church has an important mission to fulfil in our society, and it is to make manifest the Lord’s love for us. I wish that the Anglican and Catholic churches will be able to raise a united voice when it comes to the injustices of the world, and a united effort when it comes to repairing the blemishes of the world.
Chow I have a dream that, in the future, we could receive communion at each other’s altar. I don’t know when this will happen, because it touches upon many hairy issues in theology, and we have different views on gender and clergy. But this is exactly what Pope Leo XIV wrote to the newly installed Archbishop of Canterbury, Sarah Mullally: we must respect, we must listen, and we must walk together.
Der If there’s one imperfection in the two previous IARCCUM bishops’ conferences, it was that we couldn’t receive communion at each other’s table. But it was touching that we could still receive a blessing from the bishop ‘of the other side’. I pray that our Lord can hasten the day when we will reach a fuller consensus on this matter.
If there’s one thing about ecumenism you can say to our Hong Kong brothers and sisters in Christ, what would it be?
Chow I’ll quote the slogan we picked for the 80th Anniversary of the Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong: may we became torch-bearers of hope, the hope that is born of our unity and faith.
Der I wish that each of us will truly learn from Jesus, to ‘love one another’, and by our unity, make known to others the love of our Lord.
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